In fairness for the competition it should be 27 games ie three complete rounds. Under NO CIRCUNSTANCES can the season ba allowed to go back to 18 rounds. The old excuse of no volunteers available to run extra games is wearing extremely thin. Let the Club's which can get themselves organized host the extra games as their home games - with all the benefits.

I love the idea of a full day of games - whoever came up with that should be applauded.
A 27 game season should not really be a problem surely

I don't know how ABL volunteers are organised at other Clubs but here are the numbers required to run a home game at mine.

Games Commissioner  1
Stats  4
Score bench  4
Court Announcer  1
Video - 1
Floor Wipers  2
Team Supper  2 to 3
Other food sellers (not canteen)  3 to 4 usually from a junior team
Raffle sellers  2

Assistant coaches (not paid)  4 (2 per team)
Team Managers  2 (1 per team)

That's a total of 25 plus or minus a couple.

It also requires a couple of people to be at the stadium at least an hour before game time to set up.
One person has to remain until all of the players have left to lock up  usually no earlier than 11:30. That's usually one of the set up crew as well.

Other volunteers are required to organise the roster for the game night volunteers.

Team managers have a considerable work load in doing the myriad of jobs that need to be done. Uniforms, towels etc etc.
Also to be taken into consideration is the fact that most of the ABL volunteers are also Club committee members and junior coaches.
No Club has enough volunteers to be able to rotate different volunteer teams during the season. It always comes back to the willing few.
You will also notice that there are very few young people other than court wipers who assist at the games. Statisticians are the only area where young people seem to assist.

The upshot of all of this is the extended commitment. We have to be at EVERY home game and the team people  the assistant coaches and managers have to be at EVERY game as well as being at least two trainings a week.
Remember that we also have to run houses and families as well. Very few players have those responsibilities.
At the end of the current 22 game season we really have had enough.

This is not a whinge, just a statement of fact. We do it because of our love of the game and in some cases to support our kids.

A very large number of senior players have no idea what it takes to support their basketball activities.

All right stop collaborate and listen
Ice is back with my brand new invention
Something grabs a hold of me tightly
Flow like a harpoon daily and nightly

Lets say that we exit the ABA and go to a state league (although I disagree with that concept, from what I hear thats the way the wind may be blowing) that would save the league approx $40,000 split between the 10 clubs ($4,000 each) if that money is used to pay the score bench officials for the Stateleague games the finding staff on the night should be easier. Leave the 22 game format but divide the league to 2 permanant conferences

NORTHEAST
Centrals
Eastern
North
Norwood
Sturt

SOUTHWEST
West
Woodville
South
Southern
Forestville

Teams play every team twice and their own conference 3 times (alternating teams that get 2 home games every year). Top 3 from each conference make finals and have cross over finals with the top team in each division getting a bye into finals round 2.
This will eliminate the second chance aspect but hey this isn't football if you want a second chance in elite sport go play footy.

Back on topic the $4000 saved by each club goes into the payment of bench staff with 11 home games thats $363.63 per night spent over 5 bench staff and 1 games commisioner or $60.00 each person/night (The ice man doesn't only have phat rhymes but can bust it with a calculator too!!)

If you got a problem yo I'll solve it, Check out the hook while my DJ revolves it.

Keepin it real from the streets of West Lakes!!

Play that funky music.

I was going to suggest something similar - multiple games on one day makes it a bit more of an event. I can't imagine that clubs make much from ABL games, but you could put that towards cash for the volunteers, give them vouchers that are part-paid by a sponsor, or just fund an after-event volunteers-only booze up with some food and drink to show some token appreciation?

OGB,
i absolutely take on board what you are saying there. Volunteers do an amazing job, and should never be taken for granted.
That is why i think the orginal idea of holding a sunday extravaganza of games has even more appeal has lots of appeal. A lot of the jobs you mentioned would not be required, eg. only need to open the stadium once, and close it once....dont worry about post-match functions, so supper and other food sales wont be required. by my calculations you would probably only need about 10 people per game, which is a lot less than a normal home and away fixture.
Bring on the Sunday specials i say!!! The league has to take that next step and go 27 games....having an uneven draw or even worse 18 games is not good enough IMO.

hear yea, hear yea

Vanilla Ice and ZAC 4MAN on the same wave length

Show Vanilla Ice the Little Ball, I didn't grow up on the tough streets of west lakes dodging drive bys and knife fights to be disrepected buy the withholding of the small ball.

Vanilla Ice will also be only refering to himself in the 3rd person from now on as the english language shouldnt show disrespect to Vanilla Ice by refering to him without his props!!

WEST(lakes)sieede

SUPER SUNDAY

I also play tennis and know from experiance that a 'super sunday' is and awesome event. Sponsors love these kind of things and are really good in developing sportsmanship and inter-club friendships.

My only sugestion is to play games randomly so if theres two teams playing make sure the womans match isnt being played next to them so that club spporters overlap

90166 - you have forgotten 2 extremely group of volunteers - scorebench and stats.

Without these 2 groups, the game cannot even commence!!

Also "not really sure there is a great deal of strecthed out volunteers"...well let me tell you a story....

My stats off sider is off on holidays (the only time she could really go that ties in with the rest of her family)....I am incredibly ill, and any other time, I would not be attending, however I already had to beg someone from another club to come and help me out today (thank you VERY much South Adelaide!!) and for me on a Sunday morning to decide I can not possibly be at the game, would leave the club with no one to cover me.

Yet people say not enough volunters is a tired excuse, or isnt correct??

As for "let the clubs who have got themselves organised to hold the events"..yeah only if your going to split the takings with the other clubs. How can the clubs be held responsible for lack of people wanting to put their hand up to volunteer for game duties? Especially when their are endless amounts of mindless morons on this forum who are ready to criticise the first perceived error one of these volunteers might make?

Basketball fans in this state have partly created some of the problems with basketball in this state. Continual abuse of refs, both in person and on here, unwarranted criticism of game staff (ststs/scoretable (look at the Under 18 Nationals thread alone!), no wonder we dont want to be involved as volunteers!

take the women back to tuesday nights the men to wednesday nights at dome/powerhouse/cot and play two games at wayville. Stats/scoretables/referees would all benefit from the close contact and the ability to talk thru situations or problems that arise.

make the academy teams into interstate teams and get them to join seabl

kids have something to aim for, week nights easier on resources.

Riiiiiiiight....

We have enough problems with games on the weekends...now you want people to have to rush home from work, have tea, spend time with the family, and get to a game.

Stats and scoretable staff have to be in attendance 30 minutes before tip off, Chair person and Head Statistician are meant to be there an hour before.

Yogee

up until a few years ago that is the way it run

and it worked and worked well refs who umpired tues could umpire wed
up and coming refs weren't thrown in the deep end but could be nutured by umpiring with a senior ref on women's games then move on to the men's at a later date. they also had the advantage of being able to see and chat to other refs with home and away formats its possible some refs won't see someone else on the roster for a majority of the season. this gives the refs the ability to be able to speak about problems etc, it is good for mentoring and team building.

the same was true for scoretables many of the current 'senior' STOP people came thru Apollo then Powerhouse days when they were rostered with more senior people. clubs were expected to supply two scorers team a shot clock, fiba sheet, team b check score and timer.
Again the ability to be able to talk to senior people, talk after the game about situations that arise makes for IMO better personnel.

Stats in those days admittedly were done by each team on a manual sheet basis. However I'm sure the computers could be set up to do the games with one person from each team perhaps one rostered from the stats group. Again working with a cross section of people strengthens the personnel IMO.

Instead of doing two games on a weekend you do one game on a tuesday or a wednesday night. No weekends given up to drafty cold stadiums, no need for a multitude of volunteers needed to set up stadi, cook sausage sizzles etc.

All it means more spectators. If you could go on a tuesday or a wednesday night and see at least two quality women or men's games.

Again Yogee, well aware of what is required of stats etc it can be done. Just think outside the square you live in. Just because we do it this way doesn't mean it has to stay that way.

Thanks for the history lesson, not that it was really needed.

The fact is, living in the past wont help the current situation. I'm not talking about the way stats are done or anything like that.

Life itself has changed since those days, people have more and more demands placed on them. You are expecting people to volunteer to be at a venue for 6pm, for a 7pm tip off? Finish work at 5, get home, get changed, have dinner, then get to the venue all within an hour? Then at the venue till at least 10pm. Where is the family time?

And that's assuming your friendly club volunteers work straight 9-5 jobs. Also you suggest that each club provide someone from the stats group. Once again, these people are volunteers. Who is going to provide their petrol expenses when Centrals play Southern? or vice versa....sheesh even Woodville playing Southern would cost me plenty to get there! Perhaps we could charge more on the door to cover those costs??? Does it make sense?

Always open to suggestions on how to overcome those problems...but yeah those are the issues from a club volunteer if you wanted to play weeknight games as well.

Yogee what part didn't you understand that these games would be played 2 at Wayville 3 at the Dome didn't you understand

instead of having to travel to Southern to do games you would be doing them at the Dome or at Wayville fixed games fixed amount of travel no Gawler to Morphettvale it would be Gawler to Wayville or Beverley

games on a week night should increase your family time not detract from it. if you were doing one game a night at say dome game rostered at 9.30 family time before you go out and the added advantage of your weekends free how does that take away from family time? IMO it increases it no, sorry i can't go to the footy or sorry i can't take you to the zoo cause i have to volunteer for 5 hours this afternoon. Sunday arvos available for a whole range of activities - better family time surely?

Speak to the volunteers that have been around for longer than 5 mins or 2 or 3 seasons. you will find that those volunteers all the club scorers have travelled to mt barker, to morphett vale, to barmera, to renmark, to loxton, to gawler all at their own cost for years.

consolidating games into week nights would lessen the impact on volunteers IMO

(#90616) underutilised yes but ABL does not make money by the time the court hire/referee/chairperson payments etc are taken into account they lose money

for example and i'm guessing at these numbers
court hire $100
referee's x 4 $400
ref evaul x 2 $20
chairperson x 2 $20
$540.00 in total allowing for doorkeeper/floor wipers etc are voluntary.

players/coaches/managers/life members/scorers/stats/floor wipers enter for free

you therefore would need a minimum of 108 people there to break even

bring it back to week nights the court hire isn't absorbed by the clubs. travelling time is down with central locations.

specators would go to these games as Isaac has said elsewhere he goes to see name players like cooper, smylie, ng, maher play. Just think you could on one night see forestville v north, Sturt v Eastern with Ng & Holmes (i know he is going) shooting the lights out. On a tuesday you could see Sam Woosman up against Dee Ranford, followed by a North & Sturt.

Coaches could scout teams by watching the game after or the game before.

Many advantages to playing mid week rather than spreading the mix very thin on the weekends.

Tony

We obviously wont agree on the subject, as we are coming from different points of view. I can see some merits in what you are suggesting, but I can see just as many flaws as well.

Maybe we should leave it at that rather than turning this into a long drawn out, and eventually pointless thread.

i like the idea of double or triple headers - why not give it a try in 2007?

Mid week sounds good in many ways but it defnitly is a step backwards.

standards are always going to be lower on a weeknight for everyone including players, coaches, refs and scoretable.

everyone is going to be tired after work and many people work late and would find it hard to make 6pm games.

financialy though it is much cheaper idea so I guess it depends on $$$ in the end

Yol

I respect your opinion however playing devils advocate is it a step backwards.

The referee's were a stronger group when the games were on week night it was this format which saw Geoff Weeks, Michael Butler and Carolyn Gillespe taught the senior ropes all 3 went on to referee at Olympic games and World Championships.

STOP was formed from a group of scorers from different teams in the dying days of Apollo the core senior group again learnt the ropes working week night games and learning from their peers.

Basketballers like Werner Linde, Peter Ali, Mike McKay, Jan Stirling, Marina Moffa, Michelle Brogan, Rachael Sporn, Ray Wood,Jason Baylis, Paul Bell, Brett Maher, Jason Dix to name just a few came thru the tues/wed night draw I'd argue that in fact in those days the quality of basketball was higher not lower.

Your argument from being tired from work IMO is hollow, many people work on weekends now so who is to say that they don't work all day saturday and still play or scorer or do stats at night.

Our society is no longer a 9-5 work day

Just trying to give alternatives basketball was a lot lot stronger in this state when we played state bank league on week nights.

give me back my weekends!!

Tony

Part of your arguement is exactly mine...


People no longer work a 9-5 job. I work for the state government, and can work till 8pm at night!

With shift work becoming more prevalent, would it really be workable?

The other point you raised about the 2 teams playing providing stats/scoring staff..yeah great...but what about the poor people who get drawn the 9pm tip off Centrals vs Southern game at the Dome? These people would not be getting home till well and truly after midnight. Not to mention their increased costs in getting to the game in the first place.

Also, I seriously cannot see how people will want to come out and leave their warm houses watching TV with their family after a hard day at the office, to come out to a freezing cold Dome or Wayville to watch a bit of ABA basketball. Once again it would increase their costs as well just to go watch their team.

What happens to the social comps and the income that BSA get from them? Will costs at the door and registration costs/ court hire have to rise to cover the loss??

I'm not saying weekend games are perfect, by any means, but at least if people want to go out they can still do after a Saturday evening game.

SEABL / Big V get reasonable crowds for their games, which are primarily on weekends, where they may have 4-5 games a day at 1 stadium.

IMO not enough people come out of their homes on weekends to watch ABA, so the weeknight argument Yogee put up seems moot.

f we look at the financial situation, i think there is a great amount of money to be saved. (I admit i'm no maths-wiz though).

Being old school-ish, i think the benefits of the weeknights approach are greater.

I'd like to see the midweek games tried too. So many times I have to choose between a Saturday night game and another event.

Midweek is a no-brainer for fans - $5 entry and doesn't take up your prized Saturday night.

Pickles - yeah it might save money for the clubs involved.

BUT....what happens to all those $$ that BSA would normally get from social comps on those nights. You cant expect they will forgo their money.

Also with the Dome now privately owned, you can bet that the owners will be looking at best possible return for use of the venue.

I think if anything, costs would increase, as BSA would have to increase court hire fees (assuming current systems remain in place), which would then probably negate any savings the clubs make. Also, if the idea includes the current system of womens then a mens game, you surely cant expect to retain a 630 tip off. It would have to be moved to 7pm at the earliest.

Running concurrent games wont increase spectators, and will limit spectator seats....

oh dear yogee....you just dont get it. how big is that box you are in??

Yogee

State Government, 8pm, working?

Yogee lacks the basketball history that saw district run for decades and decades on week nights.

His vision of basketball is hampered by his experience of ball in this state.

The format would be/or was

Tuesday District Women
Dome 3 games centre court
Wayville (used to be forestville) 2 games these games usually 7 & 8.30 or 7.30 & 9pm

Tuesday Div II men play on northern court with the arcomat down

spectator seating down on southern court.

Wed Division 1 Men
3 games centre court
2 games Wayville

Div II women on southern court
and before people ask the overflow of div ii games bracket the games at wayville ie the 6pm and 10pm slots.

The weekends can be freed up to perhaps run academy sides in the intestate ABL giving the boys & girls a better comp to bridge the gap between ABL & NBL perhaps this could be side that MVP could own?

do we need free courts, then I'm afraid we need to be ruthless and these Div 4,5,6 senior teams should be played on 50min time slots making these part of District ball is some what farcial. Some not all would be beaten an under 16 side.

So what time would the last of these 3 games on the Dome centre court start? And therefore finish? Great news for the poor volunteers if it happens to be a Southern vs Centrals game.....what time do you propose they get home to be at work the next morning? Not to mention players who may have a full time job.

Once again no one has said how this will actually INCREASE spectator numbers...I cant see how it would, it would be stable if not decrease. Also no one has been able to propose how BSA would be able to counter act the loss of income from losing 2 nights of social comp out of 2 stadiums....